This week’s Massively Overthinking?subject matter arrived in our inboxes from longtime audience Leiloni. It’s a reasonable one all about recently launched?Tree of Savior — and something of its more aggravating old-school mechanics:

Tree of Savior is a very old school style MMO where grouping is especially encouraged, but since plenty of today’s gamers will be more solo-centric, you see a bit of a separated playerbase: half the people thrilled to group up and also the other half going for the best solo class builds they can find and carrying out everything by themselves — the result of which means there’s many intentional and unintended kill-stealing going on.

I’m a great person by nature, therefore i do my best to never intentionally kill-steal, and I try and educate myself on the game so I understand how it works (I discovered a Reddit bond with some gamers that genuinely thought it was any first-tag-gets-the-mob game so attempted to “help” when really these were stealing unknowingly). But I also enjoy some open up PvP games because they discourage this habits. I don’t just like being punished inside hardcore games, but in easier games like TERA, there was not much kill-stealing going on because you knew which guy could simply just turn on you and eliminate you at a moment’utes notice, so individuals were much more polite.

Between ToS and Black Desert we already notice more games wanting to encourage groups and much more similar games within development, so it’azines nice to see which developers are trying to return to this, but MMORPG gamers aren’t almost all moving with them.”

So let’ohydrates talk about Leiloni’s encounter. What’s the best process for mob touching or mob title in MMOs? Do group-centric MMORPGs solve the problem? How do you experience kill-stealing, and what should players and developers do — if anything — to combat it?

?Andrew Ross (@dengarsw):?Leveraging is dated and requirements to go away. It’s the simplest way to address kill robbing. While I feel that collection nodes shouldn’t be personalised since it has a big impact on the overall economy, killing mobs is an extremely social activity. Satisfying people for arbitrarily helping others should be encouraged, and a touch system doesn’t make it happen. There should be some kind of tolerance based on healing or even damage (or maybe even debuff kinds) before a player is provided with quest credit or loot rights in order to avoid abuse, but touching for a single player/group simply just feels anti-social in a genre that’s moved strong into single person territory in the past decade or so.

Encouraging grouping merely helps if it issues. That is, in Guild Conflicts 2, the lack of a engage system doesn’t inspire deeper bonds, nonetheless it does ensure that the single-player group can “play alone together.” That being said, Used to do meet some neat people I added to my friends list during that sort of play. The idea “mattered” because I noticed who was simply looking out for me inside combat. When it’azines so big that you can’testosterone levels tell who’s whom, it’s just enemy mentality. It’s tough to balance the two.


Brianna Royce (@nbrianna, web site): I don’t individually see groups because solution to the kill-stealing issue (nor are communities necessarily the solution to this socialization/community problem). Groups just move the problem upward a tier; instead of individuals KSing individuals, you’ve just got groups KSing groups, to state nothing of groupings KSing individuals. Classic EverQuest ended up being built on this difficulty; on a raid, you tilted to get into the DPS class so you could accrue the experience. Not inside the DPS group? Too bad; you have nothing. And that ended up being among friendly persons!

This problem has been resolved many times over through Guild Wars 2. The solution isn’big t finding a better way to decide who obtains how much experience as well as who gets “ownership” of an mob; the solution is to just stop worrying about this at all and as a substitute give everyone which contributes to a fight the exact same amount of experience along with loot. Individuals aren’capital t penalized, but?there’azines still benefit to group, formally or informally, since you kill stuff that much faster.

There’s no reason modern day MMORPGs should be doing everything other than that system right there, end of narrative.

Eliot Lefebvre (@Eliot_Lefebvre, blog):?Honestly, it is one of those things that continues to be treated as a problem if the solution already is present in games like Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV. The first tag obtains credit, everyone else will get credit by doing a great deal of damage to the targeted. It’s not a perfect setup, but it’s the sort of thing which can be refined and iterated in so that people aren’t worried about helping others. Frankly, any time a recreation starts making us reluctant to help additional players, I’m going to give it a side-eye; harming something to help another individual seems like something that only need to be tacitly accepted as a positive, whether or not the game possesses open PvP.

Group-centric games solve the problem of persons claiming enemies in much the same way that setting your house on fire handles your mouse issue – you have solved one issue by exchanging up for a much bigger issue. Except that they will don’t really repair the issue either, because i remember many days relaxing in parties in Final Fantasy XI and being agitated when another celebration pulled something that my party was about to drag for experience. Providing that enemies are a constrained resource, players shall be competing for them; it is part of what generated the development of instanced content to start with.

Ultimately, I think this is one of those problems that’s best fixed by definitely not making it an issue. In the event you don’t want avid gamers to steal kills, don’t create a system wherein only one person (or group of gamers) can get credit for the kill. The alternative isn’testosterone levels making your sport more hardcore; it’ohydrates making it more unfriendly, and for a social genre that may seem like a bad first step.

Justin Olivetti (@Sypster, blog):?MMOs should be social upon all levels, not just in chat, and that reaches combat. In a chicken coop game, don’t hole players against the other person in trying to marking mobs and near other out; allow them seamlessly work together for you to defeat foes and also share the goods. So I’m definitely most for allowing all players to attack enemies, get full credit (and more so throughout groups!), and full loot from them. It would appear that more modern titles have got moved in this course while older activities had more draconian guidelines about who reached attack and recover the cash mobs and which had to sit on the outdoors looking pitiful.

Larry Everett (@Shaddoe, blog):?Group mechanics and kill-stealing comes down to the focus of the video game. If the game is intended to be highly competitive, then kill-stealing mechanics should operate in a way that makes eliminating a given mob difficult. Perhaps it could be determined by treat mechanics or perhaps as simple as who does one of the most damage. However, I’onal not a huge supporter of games like this. There’s nothing wrong with him or her, but I like helpful games. I like video game mechanics that focus on participating for a common aim, even if it is using perfect strangers. I will think of two online games that do a decent job at with these mechanics: Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online. I like the idea that if you served kill a enemy that you get rewarded because of it in XP or perhaps loot.


MJ Guthrie (@MJ_Guthrie, blog):?I don’t really like kill-stealing. I hate people who blatantly mess with others just for sport or to selflessly meet their own requires. I’ve seen and also experienced times exactly where something you’ve continued to wait long and labored for was intentionally snatched away by simply someone else, such as whenever letting you clear an entirely room then snagging a new boss/item. Oh yes, that exacerbates me.

I have come to appreciate the open tapping you’ll find in a few games, in which those who participate obtain own loot advantages without stealing by others. Although, My spouse and i kind of like the idea of a reputable mechanic where if a person is available in and hits your current mob after you are battling it and they destroy it, taking the reward for themselves, you can caught a KS buff about them that opens all of them up to be murdered by other people for a period of like an time — even in PvE games. In case they have so many enthusiasts, it stacks. A possible problem is how to deal with individuals who tag everything in a space first from a long distance just to prevent you from getting hired. I must contemplate this further.

Honestly, as much as I hate get rid of stealing, I hate if you are prevented form encouraging someone out of a poor situation even more. Yah, protecting against me from throwing heals on a few random stranger who is obviously about to kick the bucket because the mob/encounter/player is secured from any interference is just too big much! The first time of which happened I just seated there in awe, not comprehending the reason why you’d prevent avid gamers from helping one another.

Not allowing me to aid others in a sport is just telling me not to play your game. Period.

Patron Archebius: First-hit mob paying attention to has always believed like one of those vestiges from the distant past – just like the appendix, or disco. I’m guaranteed it served a goal at one time, but considering it now, I merely can’t really know very well what it was.

If you aid kill something, then you need to get XP as well as credit for the eliminate, assuming you did greater certain percentage of the total damage. I think Guild Conflicts 2 did this pretty perfectly. There’s nothing more bothersome than hopping right into a game and having to be around the noob locations waiting for stuff to spawn; or, conversely, for the starting place to be massively overpopulated having monsters to a ridiculous degree (looking at anyone, Black Desert. Pretty rare intended for boogles of weasels to just gather together outside of town).

And groupings don’t really fix that issue; everything that does is allow it to be more convenient for anyone who will get in a group and increasingly less hassle-free for those who just want to eliminate five wolves and find back to town. Or even for the second group to get at an area that’s also been stripmined for orcs.

If you want to result in the game competitive, next great. Some people believe mobs are resources that should be fought above, just like anything else. But for all the small things everyone has to kill simply to make the town crier content, do we really need to morph it into a struggle? If you want to make big world managers tagged by first strike or by over-all damage, I can recognize your reasoning – should you have everything tagged, next it’s just one more aggravation for me.

Your turn!